Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, president of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue

Your Eminence, the Pontifical Council is to release new guidelines on interreligious dialogue. Why is there a need for these guidelines now?
The problem, as the Pope said, is that we have a lot of initiatives around the world and we have to put them into some order. So we thought it a good idea to propose to priests, bishops and ordinary brothers and sisters a kind of road map with concrete suggestions. Of course, these have to be adapted to local situations as someone in Morocco is not in the same situation as someone in Japan.

Will it be an update of earlier guidelines issued by the Pontifical Council in the early 1990s?
Yes, it should be more concrete and we want to adapt it to each situation because interreligious dialogue is daily bread for everyone. One should add that these guidelines are not born yet. We are going to elaborate on these guidelines in the light of our discussion.

Will there be a special emphasis on Islam in these guidelines?
No, it has to have regard for all religions. What was interesting about our discussions was that we did not concentrate on Islam because in a way we are being held hostage by Islam a little bit. Islam is very important but there are also other great Asiatic religious traditions. Islam is one religion.

There was a sense that Islam mustn't monopolise the proceedings?
Yes, the people are obsessed by Islam. For example I'm going to India next month and I want to give this message that all religions are equal. Sometimes there are priorities because of particular situations, but we mustn't get the impression there are first class religions and second class religions.

What were the main achievements from the meeting, in your view?
First of all, we stated the point that there are so many things we have in common with other believers, for example that we all believe in one God, that we profess the same sacredness of life, the necessity of fraternity, the experience of prayer. Because it's very important to stress that interreligious dialogue is not a sociological analysis or a political strategy; it's a religious activity and the language of the religion is prayer so we have always to stress this point. Also we stressed the formation of youth because we realise that in the society in which we live, in multi-ethnical, multicultural societies, the young generation are perhaps lost. So we have to give them points of reference and religions are obviously very important in that. So as the Pope said in his speech, there is this necessity of formation for priests, seminarians and also ordinary people... This is something new, and it is a consequence of the world in which we live.

Issues such as identity, proselytism, and reciprocity were also raised. Is this the first time reciprocity was given such prominence?
Not really. What is good for me is good for the other, so if it's possible for Muslims to have a mosque in the West, we should have the same in Muslim countries. This is not the case in many countries. There are countries - for example, I was in Doha a week ago, and I celebrated Mass in this new church there that was consecrated a month ago. It is a very impressive building. Now we're going to have a school there run by nuns. So this is an example of very good interreligious dialogue with very concrete effects. In Saudi Arabia, it is not the case yet.

There's been a lot of discussion about rumoured talks between the Vatican and Saudi Arabia. Can you tell us about these?
I shouldn't speak about the talks, but there was the visit of the King [Abdullah] to the Pope. His conversation was a very positive one. I read this morning that the King is inviting Abu Mazen and religious Muslim leaders in Saudi for a discussion, but I haven't read more. The King has in mind this tripartite dialogue between Christians, Muslims and Jews, and I think he's beginning to convince his own people.

But this talk of building a church in Saudi Arabia - how likely is that?
I think it's premature. I suppose - though I don't know as we don't have precise information what the King has in mind - but I suppose it will be a gradual evolution, for example the possibility to celebrate services in hotels, in embassies. So that will be a first step. And then an evolution with the young generation, it may be possible to build a church, as we have so many churches in the Gulf, in Bahrain for example. I remember many years ago I consecrated a church with 3,000 parishioners in Muscat in the Sultanate of Oman. Then there is Kuwait and so many other countries.

Regarding the Catholic-Muslim Forum - was there much discussion on that?
No, we mentioned it, but didn't really discuss it.

How is that progressing?
We are starting to prepare it, the people who are the relators, and we are starting to think about it because we have to invite specialists but we have to see if they are free. Tomorrow we have another meeting with the Islamic Liaison committee from Saudi Arabia so we are very busy.

And was there talk about the conversion of former Muslim Magdi Allam which some Muslim scholars on the Common Word Initiative saw as a setback?
No, nobody mentioned that.

Some say that Muslim leaders want a different kind of dialogue to the one the Pope wants. They say Muslims want a dialogue where each tradition respects the other in its own sphere, whereas the Holy Father wants to go further, to reflect more deeply on freedom to seek God, and to allow conversions to Christianity if it comes to that. What do you say to this perspective?
The purpose of interreligious dialogue is to know the other better in order to understand the content of his faith, and of course the Holy Father is insisting on freedom of religion, freedom to have a religion and not to have one, and the freedom to change religion. This is something also stated in international law, and of course for the Muslims, it's not the same.

So they have a different idea?
Yes, which is why it is important to speak with each other to clarify our positions.

Turning to the Holy Land, how important is the work of the Council and interreligious dialogue in playing a more concrete role in peacemaking in the region?
We mustn't give too much importance to this Pontifical Council. Most dialogue is carried out by local churches. As we discussed last week, we can help bishops and priests to have clear ideas about interreligious dialogue, about what can be done, about the experience of local churches. These are the Christians at the forefront of this dialogue. No doubt in the Holy Land if you have a fruitful cooperation between Muslims, Christians and Jews, the situation will be much better than it is. What is important to realise is that religions do not make war. Their followers make war. Religions by themselves are messengers of peace, fraternity, but unfortunately some followers of these religions make war. In a society where all believers get along together they contribute to the harmony of society which is why we mustn't be afraid of religions, on the contrary.

But is the Vatican actively working to promote interreligious dialogue as an instrument of peacemaking?
Yes, there is the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, and Pontifical diplomacy. I have a simple concept that I've been repeating for years since I was in the Secretary of State. There is the conviction we must share: we cannot be happy as one without the other, and certainly not the one against the other. It's very simple.

How much is the emigration of the Christian community there hampering these efforts?
This is a disaster because the place where Christ lived, died and rose again could become a museum, and this is precisely what we don't want. When we speak about the holy places, for us these are not for example the Holy Sepulchre. These are the families who live around the Holy Sepulchre, their schools, their language, their folklore, their crafts, their shops, hospitals and universities. These are holy places, not a museum, but a living community which has in its midst a holy place, a church or a mosque. What we must avoid is that all these holy places become museums. They must be living reality.

And also the Christian message of forgiveness is so important to keep there, isn't it, in the sense that the other religions don't have such a powerful message of reconciliation?
Yes, forgiveness and compassion are things we will discuss with the Saudi Arabian delegation. It is typically Christian yes, forgiveness and compassion. In the Koran there is compassion, but Christ dying on the Cross has more intensity.

And also Jews and Muslims have more of an "eye for eye" mentality than one of forgiveness?
Yes.

What are your views on Tony Blair's new Faith Foundation?
I had the occasion of talking with Mr Blair about this foundation and I am ready to help it, but it's a very demanding task. I suppose he has the charisma and the will, but it is very demanding. If we can help him, we would so very willingly because he has a clear leadership and much good will.

His common theme is to say we must combat extremism in any religion, but others see Catholic extremism as simply holding fast to Church teaching. What do you say to this view?
Each religion has its own doctrinal corpus, one must respect that, but extremism is another thing. It's when you lose the sense of proportion, when you impose. We propose but we don't impose by force. The truth has to impose by itself not by the sword. But I think Mr Blair, he is a new Catholic, he has intelligence and experience and very good will and I am very confident he will succeed and we are ready to help him.

Jesuit expert on Islam, Professor Christian Troll, who you know well, told The Holy Land Review recently that he believed the biggest danger to interreligious dialogue is superficiality of belief. Would you agree?
Yes, that's why formation is important because you cannot dialogue with another religion on the basis of ambiguity. If you don't have a clear idea of what and who you believe in and how to orientate your life according to your belief, it doesn't work.